Meeting of the Board

4:00 PM, February 6, 2010

Holiday Inn, Ann Arbor



I. Call to Order Parks

Meeting was called to order at 4:08 by President Parks.

II. Roll Call LeBlanc

LeBlanc conducted roll call finding: Present: Parks, LeBlanc, Chandler, Chirco, Dennany, Fenwick, Freeland, Friedman, Henderson, Pall, Rothfeld, Wostyn with Strub arriving at 4:15 Absent, Al Bobrofsky, Ann Bobrofsky, Robert Lusch, and Ron Sirna

III. Introduction of visitors

Brian Malnar, Mary Dennany, Kathy Freeland, Jim Motley

IV. Invocation LeBlanc

LeBlanc lead the board in prayer.

V. Minutes of November 28, 2009 LeBlanc

Rothfeld felt that there should have been more detail written on the discussion of the disbursement of the $7500 remaining on the ANA pledge. He would like some clarification to appear in these minutes of how the decision was made at the November 2009 meeting. At this time, Fenwick moved and Pall seconded a motion to approve the minutes as mailed to the board. Approved.

VI. Additions to Agenda Board


New Business: XIV C. co-host awards

D. Slate Award Rothfeld

Old Business: XIII D. ANA Seminar – add small letter b. Security on Thursday

XIV E. Santa Claus Friedman

XIV F. Disbursal of $7500 to ANA Rothfeld

VII. Approve Agenda Board Fenwick moved and Henderson seconded a motion to approve the agenda. Approved.

VIII. Director Absences LeBlanc

(Director absences in the current term were enumerated: Fenwick 1, Strub 1, Lusch 3, Freeland 1) No action – Lusch back in hospital and unable to attend. Wostyn opined that members that run for the board should be healthy enough to participate.

IX. Appointments (If any) Parks None

X. Membership Comments Parks

Jim Motley, Huron Valley Numismatic Society – new MSNS member club – sent letter requesting co-sponsorship of Spring 2011 show. Club in existence for a year, really took off 4 months ago. All officers in place. Has a Web site. 11 members. Only one is a dealer who will set up at the state show. Two are dealers who will not set up.

Currently we have no co-hosts for Spring 2011. Their treasury is not at issue, they are most interested in getting their members more involved in state-level activity. It was confirmed that the length of their club membership is not an issue in making the determination of whether they may serve MSNS in this capacity. Rothfeld asked if they would consider volunteering for free just to get the experience. Answer: they would.

XI. Officer Reports

A. President Parks

Would like to continue with the President’s award for the Fall show. Board signaled approval.

Make sure everyone is aware of the upcoming counterfeit detection seminar – tell all your contacts and clubs. There is a flyer available, or look at the MSNS or ANA websites. 6-8 people have already signed up. 20-25 is the likely limit.

B. Vice President Bobrofsky Absent

C. Secretary-Treasurer LeBlanc

1. Review Current Financials

a. Regular Checking Account ( Jan 20, 2010) $32105 Approx.

New Liberty Bank: Demand Savings 0.4%, $17879

b. Life CD $50K 3.4% Matures 12/14

CD $50K 4.1% Matures 03/10

Savings Account $3621

c. Cash Reserve New Liberty Demands Savings 0.4%, $10K

d. Pruchnicki Inheritance New Liberty Bank CD 1.45 % Matures 05/10, $3749. Encumbered for the ANA seminar, then for exhibitor awards – thus all is for education – and this will be disbursed by May. Friedman moved and Wostyn seconded a motion to approve the report. Approved.

e. Encumbered Funds $5000 ANA seminar April 2010

LeBlanc states that the seminar will likely be close to revenue neutral, or a cost to MSNS of less then $1000 provided 20 or so people attend.

2. Membership Report

a. Member Totals RM 850 YN 83, CLUBS 26 (including new Huron Valley Numismatic Society; have lost contact with Wayne coin club due to returned mail), HLM 19, LM 379 Total 1357. Next report will decline from this. People have until March 31 to pay their 2010 dues– if they don’t, they will be dropped. Reminders will be mailed around March 1st.

b. Life Applicants Barbara Robinson, David Henderson, Abigail Coulson, Grant Campbell

Rothfeld noted that Abigal Coulson is still a minor.

Rothfeld moved and Dennany seconded a motion to approve the other three applicants. Approved with Henderson Abstained.

3. Property Report We’re keeping the remaining ~8 club 50th anniversary medals. No info on case/lamps changes. Appx. 18 Circ. Franklin Halfs, Some exhibit awards being carried over.

4. Fall 09 Budget LeBlanc Reviewing the budget sent to all board members. Had proposed to make $13k, but made ~$20k. Friedman moved and Dennany seconded a motion to approve the Fall 2009 budget report. Approved.

5. 2009 Budget LeBlanc states that this is only a budget worksheet and not a tax report. Showed slight profit anticipated for 2009 based on optimistic revenue targets on interest and donations. But we were $5500 in the red, plus a $10000 amount in the red for the ANA donation. The actual statement on operations (p&l) will show a lesser loss, due to more Spring 2010 bourse fees coming in during 2009. Friedman moved and Chandler seconded a motion to accept the 2009 budget report. Approved.

a. Cash review Dennany, Wostyn attest to seeing relevant documents showing actual bank account statements with balances showing.

6. 2009 P & L LeBlanc

On the books, we lost ~$9650. This includes $10,000 donation to ANA. 2010 bourse fees had a strong early payment incentive that pulled about $4000 of income into 2009.

Friedman moved and Chirco seconded a motion to approve the 2009 P&L Statement. Approved.

7. Spring 10 Budget LeBlanc

Work In Process. No approval sought.

8. 2010 Budget LeBlanc

While this is a balanced budget for 2010, revenue may be optimistic. Wostyn asked for a miscellaneous category – a rainy day fund – that shows how much money we have available. Parks noted that this is just an estimate, so this isn’t necessary. LeBlanc states he will be reluctantly asking for revenue increases from the board throughout the year. The Spring 2010 convention was budget approved to be the red, and thus not only does that convention not add to our income, we have to overcome it's deficit.

Friedman moved and Freeland seconded a motion to approve the 2010 budget. Approved. The board says they may request to have a budget/finance review study session prior to the next board meeting.

9. Correspondence LeBlanc

Huron Valley Numismatic Society – would like to co-host Spring 2011.

Lansing Coin Club Secretary Treasurer – asks that Lansing and Livingston be considered co-hosts.

XII. Committee Reports

A. Exhibit Passic is absent.

B. Webmaster Report 2-3 page webmaster report was mailed to board

C. Auctions Summerell Summerell not present. Parks asked for new chair of auction committee. Friedman accepted. Brian Rowley was discussed as a possible auctioneer who could assist us with an auction. Added Wostyn to committee also.

D. Past Presidents Ann Bobrofsky is absent.

E. Mich-Matist Rothfeld

Rothfeld: Magazine is great, Strub is doing a good job. Rothfeld asked how mailing list is preprared. LeBlanc states One per household except that YN’s always get their own copy. Also, all 20 people with Liberty Coin address get their own copy. Pall would like a cost report of the Michmatist breaking it down into fixed and variable cost. We should also ask members who have read their copies to donate them to the club for re-distribution. LeBlanc asked that the magazine be entered again in the ANA’s next contest. The board agreed, and Strub agreed to do so.

F. Publicity Strub Nothing to report.

G. Membership Chandler Nothing to report.

H. Conv./Manual Revision Parks asks for revisions. Friedman asked to change the point system.

I. Club Outreach/Communication Clubs Wostyn

Mini-show. Came up with 4 venues, but every weekend has a club show in competition with it – scheduling is a problem - the question is who do you least want to upset by conflicting? Still discussing.

J. Education Pall 2 things. For April, we have in part setup one person to speak at a round table on Canadian Coins. Need a fall program on tokens and medals. So far Cliff Mishler has not removed himself from being the moderator of our round tables.

K. Finance Parks Already reviewed.

******* BREAK *****

L. Dealer Dennany

Wostyn moved that all dealers should receive two raffle tickets – each for two free lunches at the hospitality suite on Saturday (the second lunch is for their assistant), with one winner drawn. Pall seconded. Passed.

Friedman explained his survey and its results, all previously mailed/emailed to the board. Friedman will give names to Dr. Parks for dealers to whom we should apologize for indignities suffered in past years, in order to regain their business. A sign will be posted to encourage less hoarding of dealer donuts in the mornings. Rothfeld moved that the committee shall formulate a questionnaire for the dealers to fill out, with the board reviewing in advance, and the President’s approval. Pall seconded. Passed.

Numerous complaints were received from dealers that payment was required over 90 days in advance to receive the early bird discount. LeBlanc said that a date was set by the board, so the board makes this decision, not him. He urged the board to bear this in mind when setting Fall fees.

Pall moved, and Chirco seconded, a motion to allow exhibit committee discretion in changing the guidelines to accommodate the differing realities of exhibits based on material dug up by metal detectorists. Passed.

Friedman will write article for next MichMatist to explain his survey – will drop all comments and be brief.

XIII. Old Business

A. Schlag Memorial Update Al Bobrofsky Absent

1. B. MSNS Attire LeBlanc Most directors received their allocation of 3 shirts – but 2 sets were not usable (wrong sizes). We are building an inventory of shirts. Coats still "on order". Website for coats was a wholesale-only for coats, so our shirt retailer was to be our intermediary for a small mark-up. But the shirt seller isn’t getting responses from the coat-maker.

C. Suburban Detroit Coin Show Wostyn

22-24 new members were signed up at this show. We’re invited back. Wostyn wants help.

D. ANA Seminar Spring 10 LeBlanc

We fronted $1500 to the ANA to pay everything but the location of the class. Covers instructor’s airfare, per diems, getting materials shipped here. We should have no costs beyond that. Tuitions now will be split between the ANA and MSNS. If we get 20 students, we break even. Overall, should be very revenue-neutral. 4 students registered as of Feb. 2. Dealer community seems very strongly interested. LeBlanc will keep tabs on this with the ANA, expects us to easily hit 20. Wostyn said she and 4 from her club are going. Registrations all go to the ANA. If sent to MSNS, will be forwarded to ANA. Rothfeld questios the instructor’s expertise in counterfeiting. LeBlanc says that ANA says he is qualified

a. MSNS pay for lunch LeBlanc

We have the $5000 encumbered for this project available to us. We are going to be revenue neutral. To be a top tier organization, LeBlanc, said, we should provide the lunch for this class. He requested that $500 be allocated. Friedman moved, Strub seconded that we provide lunch to counterfeit seminar attendees. Approved.

b. Security on Thursday

Dealers attending seminar on Thursday will have merchandise that needs security. LeBlanc requests that a room and guard(s) be allocated, and thus that the board recognize this extra expense will be incurred. Chirco moved, and Friedman seconded, a motion that security be extended back to Thursday to accommodate dealer attendees to the counterfeit seminar. Approved.

E. Mini Show Update Wostyn See above

F. MSNS Election LeBlanc

a. Publishing of nominations

Call for nominations has been published. LeBlanc asks that all nominations sent to him be allowed to be published via the web site. Wostyn moved, and Dennany seconded, a motion that all nominations sent to LeBlanc be published on the web site as they are received. Approved.

G. ICTA Status LeBlanc

$300 dues have been sent per last board meeting action. Materials being sent to us. Paid in 2010. Parks asked that Rothfeld review the received materials upon receipt

H. CSNS DVD Program LeBlanc

CSNS, of which we are a member club, has a program that sends member clubs up to 5 DVDs per year. LeBlanc asks that he be given cart blanche to select our club’s share from the available list.

Henderson moved, and Dennany seconded a motion that LeBlanc get our 5 free DVDs from the CSNS program and further to pay for 5 more at ~$10 each. Approved.

I. Old Dealers with credit Friedman/LeBlanc

LeBlanc states three dealers have "old" credits on our books, NGC $195, Robert Keller $90, Richard Howard $40 Friedman will contact to discuss why they are no longer attending our convention.

XIV. New Business

A. Mich-TAMS Anniversary Funds Request Kathy Feeland states that at ANA show in LA last summer, Mishler and Paul Cunningham, significant members of MSNS and Mich-TAMS, began talking about the upcoming 50th anniversary of this organization, founded in Detroit. He thought there should be a 50th anniversary member banquet at the Hyatt. There is already planned a dinner at the ANA this summer. Cliff asked that a small personal group come back to Detroit for this dinner. Thus far negotiated down to a buffet, with a brought-in cake. Dual anniversary: 50th of TAMS and 45th of Mich-TAMS. Dillard will design coins for selling to raise money. Would like a donation from MSNS to support this banquet for about 40-50 people. In exchange for that, Mich-TAMS would like to say that they will be responsible for the afternoon’s educational forum in the fall 2010. She noted that local clubs have often contributed funds to MSNS in the past for their own 50th anniversary banquet. Kathy will also go to CSNS and possible other organizations, but is coming to us first.

Rothfeld moved that MSNS donate $500 to Mich-TAMS to help them with their costs for the 50th Anniversary celebrations of TAMS – which are also the 45th of Mich-TAMS. Second by Pall. Approved.

Rothfeld moved that all Mich-TAMS payments to the Hyatt Regency hotel for TAMS banquet this November be under the umbrella of MSNS. Pall seconded.

LeBlanc noted that there may be legal issues here, so he urged care be taken by the board.

Pall withdrew his second. Rothfeld withdrew his motion.

Parks expressed concern about showing favoritism to TAMS.

LeBlanc felt that this would be better handled informally.

B. Set Fall 10 Bourse Fee LeBlanc

Last fall the fee was $350 if paid in full by Aug 1st, and $375 after. (+$25 for paying at the convention late) LeBlanc notes that the spring bourse fee was set to project a loss to MSNS, and that this needs to be addressed. Base Bourse fee has not changes in a number of years. Leblanc asks for an increase from the past.

Pall requested that the fee be set to $395 for this Fall, with a $370 fee for early full payment, by 9/30/10. Wostyn seconded.

Discussion: Friedman: Dealers are being squeezed. We have enough money in our buffer zone to handle things at the same rate as they have been previously. LeBlanc said that filling the show is not difficult in the Fall, so we aren’t in danger of being unable to fill the bourse. Pall said the motion is because we need the money, and need to pay our bills. LeBlanc asked that the directors consider that they are elected by collectors and dealers, and to consider that their first job is to support MSNS and not just the dealer community. Rothfeld says that he sees dealers being unhappy because they are being treated like milking cows; enough is enough; we throw away too much money; we should not raise dealer fees. Chirco says as a dealer he’s $1000 in the hole to start; he has lost money at these shows; though profitable last time, he often is not. Friedman noted that the dealers will be upset if we'll raise our fees – at least perceived – because of what is thought, that we are doing it, to pay for things like the Florence Shook donation to the ANA and that we'll lose a number of the smaller dealers who won't be able to make expenses. Chandler agrees to raise rates, but timing is wrong. Wostyn said our show is thought by dealers to be reasonable or cheap compared to comparable state and regional shows; wants LeBlanc to reiterate that we’d have been in the hole a great deal more last year had we not pulled forward bourse fees into 2009. LeBlanc noted that the dues also need to be increased; and that the Spring bourse fee isn’t enough to break even so that deficit needs to be covered. Fenwick asked if fees were compared to comparable states.


LeBlanc then stated that the fall bourse fee must be set today.

Henderson moved setting bourse fee to $350 for the Fall 2010 show, with the fee rising to $395 for dealers who do not pay in full by September 15, 2010. In addition, dealers must pay the dues for themselves and all assistants they list on their bourse application, whether their assistants use their badges or not. Seconded by Strub. Motion Passed.

C. Co-Host Awards LeBlanc

There are no co-hosts for Spring 2011. Huron Valley has requested. Lansing has asked, but with Livingston, and Livingston has not sent their own letter. Pall suggested we should as a board revisit the amount paid for co-hosting clubs. LeBlanc suggested that if we lower the co-host fee, that adequate time be given so the clubs understand this, and then consider which clubs to award the show to. Chirco suggested we should have a special meeting to discuss our entire budget item-by-item. No motions made to award co-hosts.

D. Slate Award Rothfeld

We buy a $50 plaque every Fall, based on a $500 donation from Judy Slate. Rothfeld has the last plaque purchased with that $500. Judy Slate has passed away. Strub noted that that it may be time to drop the award, unless a sponsor can be solicited; the Slates have been honored, but are now gone.

E. Santa Claus Friedman

Friedman states that at his December show, he wants to draw kids in – by advertising at school websites. He’s bringing in Santa Claus to give away candy canes attached to old Liberty nickels. He’d like to do the same at our Fall show. Discussed, no action taken.

F. Disbursal of $7500 to ANA Rothfeld

Parks said he will write an article for the MichMatist to explain why we decided to give the money to the ANA. LeBlanc said that less should be made of this issue, rather than more, because otherwise it will be a self-perpetuating topic. LeBlanc proposed instead that he give a factual explanation in his next Secretary Treasurer’s report, as he will be doing anyway as part of the 2009 summary. Parks agreed. Rothfeld explained that he is getting strong complaints. Parks says that complaints should be redirected to him, and not answered by Rothfeld. Strub stated that it is unbecoming of Board members to speak for themselves when they disagree with a board decision, and for the board when they agree. We stand or fall based on the decisions we have made as a board. Let the voters decide on individuals.

XV. Board Member Comments

Pall – We will again have coins in the sandbox. We will have Canadian coins this time, which fits in great with the educational talk on Canadian coins. He asked Don Chandler to help. He also had a lot to say about fiscal responsibility, a lockbox, etc.

Parks – Wants any fiscal responsibility suggestions.

XVI. General Membership Comments

XVII. Adjourn

Strub moved, and Dennany seconded, a motion to adjourn. Approved. 8:19pm