Meeting of the Board 6 PM, April 9, 2011

Dearborn, Hyatt Regency

I. Call to Order Parks

Meeting start was delayed due to convention duties of the President.

Meeting was called to order by Vice President Bobrofsky at 6:20

II. Roll Call LeBlanc

Present: Al Bobrofsky, LeBlanc, Ann Bobrofsky, Wostyn, Fenwick, Chirco, Chandler, Rothfeld, Sharpe, Strub, Dennany, Pall, Friedman, Marzilli. Absent: Legal Counsel Ron Sirna, Marotta.

At the end of roll call, President Parks arrived and assumed the chair.

III. Introduction of visitors Parks

Brian Malnar (convention chair), Frank Passic (exhibit chairman), Dan Freeland (Flying Eagle Coin Club), Kathy Freeland (Flying Eagle Coin Club), Andrew Reiber (Dealer), Vince Tremain (MI Treasure Hunters Club), Mary Dennany (wife of Mike Dennany). Bill Summerel arrived 6:44. Russ Barr and Carl Tackett arrived 7:45.

IV. Invocation LeBlanc

LeBlanc lead the board in prayer.

V. Minutes of Jan. 29, 2011 LeBlanc

Pall moved, and Rothfeld seconded, a motion to approved the minutes as mailed to the board, approved.

VI. Additions to Agenda Board

Added: Old Business, Item I, regarding 3rd convention by Dennany

VII. Approve Agenda Board

Al Bobrofsky moved, and Chandler seconded, a motion to approve the agenda, which passed.

VIII. Director Absences LeBlanc

(None to report)

IX. Membership Comments Parks

Andrew Reiber Grand Rapids dealer, lives in Illinois, Vice President of Illinois Numismatic Association (INA), and an INA officer for 12 years now, spoke. INA officers and others have formed the National Numismatic Leaders Group. Goal to share knowledge among officers of different state organizations around the country. Main focus is website, especially to avoid scheduling conflicts as far out as 5 years. Cost of $100/club/year runs website basically. No paid members. Each organization appoints a member to represent them. INA funded initially with $2500 for accountant, etc. Members or interested: Blue Ridge, Georgia, Tennessee, Virginia, Indiana, Iowa, Milwaukee Coin Club. Illinois just went through thousands of dollars of legal expense dealing with an officer issue. Then they found out another state organization had done the same thing. Then wish there had been an NNLG in existence then.

Parks said the idea sounded good, and that he would refer it to committee.

Vince Tremain requested formally, following a written correspondence, November 2013 co-host duties for Michigan Treasurer Hunters.

Kathy Freeland requested formally, following a written correspondence, Spring 2013 co-host duties for Flint flying Eagle. Dan Freeland did the same for Marysville.

X Appointments Parks

It has been proposed that we have a constitution & by-laws committee. Parks asked Al Bobrofsky to chair, and Wostyn, LeBlanc and Chirco, Sirna to be members.

XI. Officer Reports

A. President Parks

People love the MichMatist.

Gary Adkins is running for the board of ANA feels they have moved too far from the collectors. He wants a Presidents commission to discuss issues related to this. Adkins feels that CSNS is going the way of ANA.

B. Vice President Bobrofsky

No report.

C. Secretary-Treasurer LeBlanc

1. Review Current Financials

a. Regular

Checking Account (March 22, 2011) $51,551 Approx.

b. Life

CD $50K 3.4% Matures, 12/14

CD $25k 1.5% Martures 3/12

CD $25K 1.% Matured, In Savings account at this time

Marzilli moved that we invest the matured $25k CD plus some of our life savings account for a total amount of not more than $30k in a $1000 face bag of 90% silver. Chandler seconded. Melt on a bag is 29.6 to 29.7 x face. Could be bought on the floor for approximately 28.5x face. LeBlanc endorsed having our investment not be entirely in U.S. dollars. Al Bobrofsky felt we should buy this tomorrow. Pall supports the motion but feels it should be gold and silver. Friedman felt he has no problem investing his own money on a silver investment but, am very uncomfortable in investing other peoples money of the life membership in silver. Also stated that interest is guaranteed income with no risk, silver is not. Ann Bobrofsky feels that the U.S. Dollar is becoming worth less and less. Chirco feels there should be an expert in charge, who is assigned the responsibility of getting in or out of this investment. Wostyn feels this is as difficult as choosing a stock or bond, thus bad. Rothfeld feels this should be done, that he has told us this for years, and that it needs to be long term; and Liberty will store this for you for free in their own vault should we buy this from them. Silvertowne will do the same thing. Dennany reminded the board of the Hunt brothers, Fenwick doesnt favor this motion on general principles, but also hates being in U.S. cash with the tiny returns were getting. Chandler has reservations, but favors purchasing silver, and wants to establish a percentage we are willing to invest in this type of investment. Several people mentioned that a stop loss should be set for silver. Fenwick added he needs to know who has authority to liquidate. Parks replied that it would be the executive committee. Objections included the volatility of the investment making it difficult to decide on sale timing. Strub commented that previous attempts to diversify were met with a threat to resign from the board; but that he has supported diversification before and does so now, as long as there are limits as stated previously. Dr. Parks said he has been told we arent meeting our diversification duties if we stay entirely in dollars. However, he doesnt feel comfortable with this kind of investment, Sharpe feels dollars at 0.1% return are a poor investment. Friedman says silver seems due for a correction, we wouldnt want to buy before such an occurrence. Al Bobrofsky called the question. The call of the question passed closing debate.

Roll Call vote: Al Bobrofsky yes, Chandler yes, Chirco no, Dennany no, Fenwick yes, Friedman no, Marzilli yes, Pall yes, Rothfeld yes, Sharpe yes, Strub no, Wostyn no. Motion carried 7 to 5.

Chirco questioned the board not having considered other investments. Marzilli said that we as a group have a lot of expertise in metals. Pall: we should have an investment committee making regular reports on investment possibilities. Parks wants that someone be in charge of this investment. He would like an investment adviser he knows to make regular reports to our board.

LeBlanc asked that we increase the size of our safety deposit box so we can take possession of our investment. Marzilli said the speed of liquidity may be at issue. LeBlanc expressed concern if we do not have possession.

Savings Account $5154

c. Cash Reserve Bank of Ann Arbor Demands Savings ~.2% $10K

Pall, Chandler moved approval of treasurers report. Passed.

2. Membership Report

a. RM 560, YN 71, CLUBS 27, HLM 22 LM 380 Total of 1060

Down significantly from last report because non-payment of dues by March 31 drops them. Many have paid their dues at this convention. Chandler wanted a report of membership by county.

b. New Life Application: Bruce Miller. Has been member more than one year. Rothfeld moved, and Fenwick seconded a motion to accept Bruce Miller as a new life member after publication in MichMatist. Passed.

3. Property Report

LeBlanc states we have exhibit awards for this convention along with some 1956 Unc. halves, and Michigan quarters in silver proof. LeBlanc was authorized to spend up to $1000 in books for the new member promotion average cost of books was $3-ish. Purchased approximately $750 worth. We received about $200 in donations for this project. About 130 of the books are 2010 Redbooks. These are the first that we will be giving away. 30-40 new members have been signed up so far this convention, and 20 or so were given away to YNs. Marzilli has a connection to get quality magnifiers for less than a dollar.

Summerel fixed about 15 lamps, only 1 he couldnt fix. Thinks we should buy 20 better quality cases to use in the exhibit area. 2012 is end of 100 watt, 2014 is end of other wattages for incandescent bulbs in America.

4. Spring 2011 Budget LeBlanc

Nothing out of the ordinary. Bourse revenue down because of 3 fewer tables, and more early registrations, than wed planned. We turned away 10-15 dealer applications due to not setting up Annex. Malnar: Our 2012 contract guarantees us more space and gives room for additional dealers. Hotel has offered to go to 2014 for Spring contracts, indefinitely far out for Fall.

5. 2011 Budget LeBlanc

Nothing unusual to report at this early date.

6. Correspondence LeBlanc

- Lansing sponsoring a 2nd place exhibit award.

- DownRiver Numismatic Assoc thanks us for allowing them to cohost last fall appreciates future consideration.

- Request to co-host from Michigan Treasure Hunters, Flint Flying Eagle, and Marysville

- Request from Windsor Coin Club to borrow cases to use at the Royal Canadian Numismatic Association Coin Show in Mid-July. There are logistics to provide letters to assist crossing the border. We did this six years ago and it worked out.

- Plenty of emails and phone calls

7. 2010 Tax Status LeBlanc

Days ago we got tax forms back from our accountant, Jack Huggins. LeBlanc to review soon and have ready for the President.

8:01pm break. Back at 8:11.

XII. Committee Reports

A. Exhibit Passic

22 exhibitors. Seminar this fall to train new judges. John and Nancy Wilson, and Jack Huggins, will help teach it. Has apps for this fall ready to go. Class 9 is Michigan Hometown Numismatics. Lansing coin club to sponsor an award.

Friedman says that gold and silver for these awards is a large expenditure. We should be giving books as awards many can be bought at big discounts.

LeBlanc best of show awards are awarded by us, not by the committee budget. Since we allow best of show winners 2 years to take their trip, we are subject to the ANA raising their prices, and to airfare price rises. This year a winner had airfare come in at $560+, over our budget.

Pall thinks we should give smaller gold and silver prizes.

Rothfeld we should have a standard of giving gold, and not tinker with that.

Al Bobrofsky we are buying exhibitors with our tremendous awards. The awards have outgrown what we can afford.

Fenwick are you aware that 10 pieces of gold are donated? And that Passic is under budget?

Dennany do we want to be a top club with a top show? Or become mediocre? $2k under budget on awards. Exhibitors help fill our hotel room commitments.

Marzilli we cant continue at this rate, with metals rising. Soon enough well see gold at maybe $2500 or $3000 we may not be able to afford these prizes then, even with donated prizes.

LeBlanc The budget for spring 2011 is set, the budget for fall 2011 is not being discussed at this time, thus this discussion is not appropriate at this moment.

Parks the board needs to think about what they want and what they want to change. If they are staying within budget of $6500, then why are people upset? Is it a concern with whether the prize is gold? We should be capping the cost of each award, so that awards change if the earlier version becomes too expensive so that they remain under the cap.

Ann Bobrofsky we need to put a limit on the best-in-show prize.

Brett Irick asked that Passic be left to manage his committee without interference.

Friedman stated that those who are most defensive about exhibits are reaping the most benefit.

LeBlanc being concerned about best of show award cost, asked that a cap of $2000 be set. Marzilli moved that a cap be set at $1500 for the best-in-show winners expenses (including ANA tuition and board, and travel) for future best of show awards. Wostyn seconded. Bobrofsky moved to table until next meeting, a voice 2nd. Passed.

Passic explained that he has kept the budget, and that they have attracted some of the best. It isnt the committees fault that gold has gone up.

Parks says that he has been told by prominent Numismatists that our program is among the very best in the country.

B. Membership Sharpe

Jackson, MI club is starting up again. Another club further North is discussing starting up. Remember that 18 clubs have gone dark in the last 20 years. If you know of a cluster of collectors anywhere, please make it known to Chuck Sharpe and he will take it from there. If a club starts, it helps MSNS grow. We should do lightning surveys of members at the sign-up desk or of just all attendees.

C. Auctions Steve Friedman

Meeting yesterday discussion we have decided after last survey that 60% did not want an auction, 40% wanted it. Need to do a membership survey that simply asks whether we want an auction. Dealers are only 50% of the auction opinion and that membership and public are the other half

Parks commented that people should go to auctions it teaches numismatic skills

Friedman said auctions are for both, getting rid of problem coins and also getting the best price for rare and collectible coins.

Parks said that dealers oppose auctions because they take money out of bourse room.

D. Past Presidents Ann Bobrofsky

Ann only two people at registration have asked about auctions. 4 past presidents met yesterday and discussed that we havent had an audit for some time. They asked one be performed soon.

LeBlanc noted that our last audit was not a certified CPA audit. It was done by Tom Coulson, who could not do so because there was a lack of records in the Klunzinger era. LeBlanc states he will comply with any board direction on issue.

Ann Bobrofsky also stated that board members should be provided dinner since they dont get paid for their services. Pay increases have been requested by some of our paid positions, but the committeedidnt want to advocate an increase in expenses at this time. Another George Hatie award was decided that will be awarded in the fall.

The board was asked to endorse the Hatie award selection by the Past Presidents without knowing to whom it would be given, in order to preserve privacy. Agreed by board.

Fenwick suggested that Parks appoint an audit committee. He agreed to do it.

E. Mich-Matist/Media Al Bobrofsky

Bobrofsky has talked with Strub and Marotta. No report. Friedman said that he has received several comments on how great the MichMatist is. LeBlanc said that he has negotiated received several discounts from Greko Printing.

F. Publicity Chirco

Pall, LeBlanc, hired a company to do a Press Release to all Michigan media outlets. Total cost is likely $200 - $250. Release went out Monday morning before the convention. By Monday afternoon, there were 49 occurrences on news sites around the country. 4 were in Michigan. Pall and LeBlanc then called local radio and TV stations. It being already on the newswire, this helped them with their calls. Chirco added that this can next be pushed to the borders of our state with contacts to adjacent portions of neighboring states. Parks suggested we do a video. Sharpe suggested a flyer that goes to shows all around the state. 2000 flyers would cost $50 to reproduce. Pall noted that Wayne County Executive Robert Ficano cut our opening ribbon yesterday, brought his photographer and his publicist. He stayed an extra 45 minutes! For fall opening ceremonies we will try to get Governor Snyder his dad was once a member of Battle Creek Coin Club.

G. Executive Dr. Parks

No report at this time.

H. Convention Malnar

Parks we should move asap on new contracts moving forward try for 5 years out in the fall, 2014 or even 2015 for the spring if possible.

I. Dealer Friedman

A few issues were resolved with Malnar. Numerous complaints that customers couldnt get parking spaces. Signage was not put up as we had said should have said coin and currency show Al Bobrofsky took the blame. Surveys Chirco hired two of Chucks granddaughters for $12 to do the pick-up of surveys got 75%. Several dealers commended this board on their pro-active dealer committee they feel they now have a voice.

J. Education Pall

We have a list of many tentative speakers for MSNS. 17 people have volunteered on 27 topics. We can have a learning day at every convention. We can have outreach programs as well. The Obsolete Paper seminar ran 7.5 hours with lots of questions and interest. LeBlanc said weve purchased the projector discussed at the last meeting. A screen came with it, but Dr. Parks loaned us one a better one. We need to always have a backup bulb, this will be looked into. Chirco noted that Pall was exceptional as an instructor, who kept all spell-bound and should receive an honorary doctorate in Numismatics.

K. Finance Dr. Parks

See previous discussions regarding auditing

XIII. Old Business

A. Schlag Memorial Update Al Bobrofsky

All plaques sold. $4760 in account on agenda for prelim approval with MI historical society. When get prelim approval, will make formal application and downpayment. Steve Biedas state senator office will help move this along. Felix Schlags grand-daughter Hilda Hine, who lives in Owosso, as well as a cemetery trustee, are working with us.

B. MSNS BOD Attire LeBlanc

We have acquired more MSNS shirts but no more jackets one jacket was needed, but that doesnt meet the minimum order requirement. Any director needing a shirt should contact LeBlanc. Shirt cost to the club is $14-$15 for the shirt and $5 - $6 for the image. Directors are allowed up to 3.

C. Seminar Spring 11 LeBlanc

13 students at the $99 tuition. Final tally not available yet. Room charge may be zero since we already had room for the convention. We have a food bill pending. Likely close to a financial wash.

D. ICTA report Rothfeld

1099 form requirement has been repealed by congress.

HR 1098 free competition in currency act of 2011 states that no tax may be imposed on sale or exchange of coins, silver, etc. and no state may assess any tax or fee on any currency. This is still under consideration.

Hearings pending in the house concerning Chinese counterfeits.

E. Livingston Show MSNS Table Marotta (Marotta was absent no report)

F. Insurance Problems LeBlanc

Issues between the two agencies that insured / insure us, as mentioned at the last meeting and in the previous minutes persist, but seem under control.

G. Approve Convention Manual Parks

LeBlanc received a draft of the proposed manual 10 days ago from Parks. Chirco offered to clean it up in terms of headlines and flow. Second draft resulted. This emailed to board. Third version prepared by LeBlanc in response to Wostyn, who had 12 questions for LeBlanc. 10 he acted on, and 2 didnt merit a change. This last, revised April 4, is the last version sent. Aiming for approval at next board meeting.

H. Pruchnicki 2nd Inheritance LeBlanc

a. Canadian Misc.

b. USA Misc.

Has been placed into two display cases by the public registration desk. US material in one, Canadian in another. Forms there for preparing sealed bids, and instructions to put into a donation box. LeBlanc will open the bids at 3pm on Sunday. We have 10-12 bids so far, LeBlanc hasnt examined yet. These cases dont have a lot of value. Secretary Treasurer wont accept a bid for less than face value.

c. Gold Coins

Have received these back from PCGS all are authentic, and graded. Since we have no plans for the gold coins, they are in our possession.

I. Third Convention Dennany

Chirco looked into the Crowne Plaza, and Dennany has looked into a Kalamazoo option.

Chirco said hed communicated with the committee and LeBlanc. Crowne Plaza in Grand Rapids is a good location and a good size venue. Has everything we need for a mini show. 2 miles from airport. Room for 80 dealers, divided into two sides divided by an atrium.

Wostyn felt that Grand Rapids should be our first mini-show, seeing that we had been unsuccessful in putting a full show there.

Parks wants the committee to move to project costs so that table fees and etc. can be developed.

XIV. New Business

A. Seminar Outstate Chirco

Chirco wants MSNS to sponsor an all-day seminar in the Western part of the state with or without a show. Parks asked Chirco to continue looking into this subject, costs, timeframe.

B. By-Law Change/Repeal V bcd Marotta

Marotta being absent, no motion put forth.

XV. Executive Session Request LeBlanc

LeBlanc requests a closed session to discuss a matter related to member clubs.

***** Moved and seconded to enter Executive Session at 9:57pm *****

At this time, all non-board members left the room.

***** Board returned from closed session at 10:11pm *****

At this time, the doors were opened, finding member Mary Dennany to reenter the room.

C. Co-Host Issues/Awards Board

Friedman moved, and Dennany seconded, a motion that Secretary LeBlanc be ordered to draft a letter to our member clubs to be reviewed by our legal counsel and sent to each of the MSNS member clubs advising them to check on their legal standing as a legal entity with the appropriate jurisdiction. Passed unanimously

No co-host awards were granted.

D. Spring 2013 Contract LeBlanc

Pall moves that the executive committee have the power to negotiate a spring of 2013 and spring of 2014 contract with the Hyatt and to execute if they deem appropriate. Wostyn seconded. Approved unanimously.

XVI. Board Member Comments

Marzilli bothers him that dealers are leaving early Jim Fairfield left at 3:30; Executive left at 3:30 too. This is unacceptable. Idea to make dealers who leave early be in the annex at the next show. Parks asked that the committee meet to make recommendations.

LeBlanc Get your breakfast tickets

Sharpe thanks for letting Huron Valley club to co-host

Pall thanks for your support for education programs and making us look good.

Rothfield thanks for supporting exhibits

Chandler parking is a problem. LeBlanc says that Ford owns the chained-off lot and Hyatt could not come to terms with Ford for use.

XVII. General Membership Comments

None heard.


Dennany moved, and Marzilli seconded a motion to adjourn at 10:25 pm, which passed with one verbal objection. Passed.

Return to MSNS Home page

Return to Meeting Minutes

Return to Board of Directors